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There are so many questions. Gary Fisher: No, absolutely not. And I take great comfort in that because the Bible says that we are looking through a glass darkly.

Gary Fisher: But one of the things that fascinates me in the book of Revelation is in chapter 22 where it says the tree of life is placed there in Jerusalem.

Gary Fisher: Been placed there at the end of the Millennium and it says that the leaves on the trees are for the healing of the nations.

Wait a minute I thought the healing of the nations has already taken place. Gary Fisher: And it talks about dogs outside and all that kind of stuff.

Reagan: That is my number 1 question. You know I look through a mirror darkly and I have questions and number 1 on the list is who are these nations who appear to be outside the New Jerusalem on the New Earth?

What about you Nathan? Nathan Jones: Like for instance the 6 trumpet judgments, these demonic locusts that come out in the world and they described as heads of lions, and mouths of fire, and smoke and sulfur.

Are those people we are taking about, or are they demons? And why do they look like animals? I mean there are all sorts of imagery in that the Bible gives us but not always a definition.

But I get more and more understanding the longer I read, the longer I study, the more I dig because I pray for that understanding based on that verse.

Gary Fisher: I absolutely concur. I was fascinated by that verse years ago when I first started studying Revelation and it occurred to me one day and I heard this so many times blessed is he who reads.

Reagan: Let me ask you this. When you began to study the book of Revelation as a neophyte just beginning to really get into, it what was the most amazing thing that you discovered in it?

What surprised you the most? Gary Fisher: For me the Jewishness that is involved in it, all the quotes from the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures.

Reagan: Well it has more quotations from the Old Testament than any other book. Reagan: Yeah, you know that actually applies to the whole New Testament because Jewish people were told if they read the New Testament they will sin and they are told to never read the New Testament.

And yet when they do read it the thing that amazes them the most it is so Jewish from beginning to end, the Gospels everything. Reagan: How about you Dennis anything that surprised you?

Dennis Pollock: Well there have been a couple of surprises down through the years. One of them that I think very few Christians even today really get is just how evangelical the book of Revelation is.

A lot of people see it as mystical, esoteric, bizarre, written for mystical, esoteric, bizarre people, and of not very practical use.

And certainly not much related to the idea of receiving Christ. But you find Jesus all over the book. For example the Lamb of God that term you find it four times referring to Jesus outside of Revelation.

You find it 28 times in the book of Revelation. You can hardly turn a page of what you are reading about the Lamb of God. You find an angel going out preaching the everlasting gospel.

Reagan: Nathan what about you? Anything surprising? I mean this life is so little and eternity is so forever. Reagan: Which means we will have intimate fellowship with Him.

That we are going to spend eternity in an ethereal place called Heaven floating around on clouds playing harps.

Reagan: Did you have something you wanted to add? Gary Fisher: I did. Something that fascinates me still about the book of Revelation is the two pictures of Jesus in Revelation, He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and yet He is also a Lamb.

Gary Fisher: And we know lambs as being gentle and that kind of stuff. Can you share what your website address is so people can reach you please?

Gary Fisher: Mine would be lionofjudahministry. Reagan: Thanks, guys and hey, could we just sum up this program by one sentence.

What is the message of the book of Revelation? Gary Fisher: Jesus is going to judge, and Jesus is going to reign. Reagan: Amen, hallelujah.

End of Program. Home Programs Forum on the Book of Revelation. Forum on the Book of Revelation. Last aired on May 25, Read More.

Part 1 Dr. Gary Fisher: Great to be back Dave, thanks. Gary Fisher: Amen. Nathan Jones: Appreciate it. Nathan Jones: Yeah. Reagan: What about it.

Reagan: Oh, yes. Gary Fisher: Yes. Nathan Jones: Amen. Gary Fisher: Revelation Reagan: There you go. Part 2 Dr. Nathan Jones: Oh, yeah.

Reagan: Duh. Dennis Pollock: Yes. Dennis Pollock: A counterfeit Trinity. Part 3 Dr. Reagan: Oh, boy. That last one would remain a mystery until it is revealed in time.

We have far more information today than Daniel ever had because the Bible is now complete. Let us look at the seven churches of Asia as they existed in the first century.

Revelation was written to them. Unless someone was present who was inspired to interpret the reading of Revelation and I grant that as a possibility for that time period there is no way that anyone could have understood all the visions in Revelation in the great details offered by various writers through the centuries.

But somehow modern writers seem to know. Though the seven churches of Asia could be affected by the events which are described in symbols they could not have identified the exact place, the exact incident or the exact time these things would be.

Is this a contradiction of the self-sufficiency of the Bible? Not at all. It was not necessary nor was it the purpose of the book of Revelation to have the seven churches of Asia or anyone know the actual time, place, action and result of each event.

The point is that Revelation may not be a listing of specific, onetime events which are now recorded in history.

There are some things which are obvious, evident and supported by the text of the Bible such as the historical description of the righteous on the earth in Revelation 12 and final judgment in Revelation But not all things in Revelation are prophetic of a specific event in time which could be understood.

They are lessons with a purpose. If you cannot know the specifics from the Biblical text then you certainly cannot know it from an outside source.

What the seven churches of Asia could easily understand are the main lessons. That is what prepared them and prepares us completely.

Let us consider that if the seven churches of Asia could not have known the secrets of every detail in Revelation then neither can we. There will be no more scripture to explain what we cannot know from Revelation.

What we have is it. There is no more. The words found in Isaiah foretells the birth of the Messiah. From this prophecy Isaiah could not have known.

One could have gone to Micah 5 for the where. Micah was contemporary to Isaiah. Revelation 1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth.

To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men.

Their power was to hurt men five months. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

This is a mystery and it is meant to be a mystery. There really is no way to accurately fit this into one historical event on the earth.

The seven churches of Asia could not have known what this represented beyond the lesson. We may very well be wasting our time if we set ourselves to guessing the historical events which Revelation may or may not be representing.

We could be dabbling into a dangerous and pointless hobby while missing the message and certainly not enhancing the message.

Let us play a small game as a way of illustrating the point. We will call this The Game of Beneficial Conjecture.

I have to ask the question I do not mean to insult anyone : what advantage is it to have come to a conclusion that the fifth trumpet Revelation must mean the Visigoth invasion of Rome in A.

How does this add to the lesson? The seven churches of Asia could not have known this as they read the book for the first time or even the fiftieth time.

Yet the book was written to them and was completely useful and valuable to them. Now in our game let us change the supposition: The fifth trumpet now describes the Plague of Justinian in A.

So let us look at the results with this change. How has the meaning benefited for our advantage to where we can gathering more from the lesson?

Nothing was actually added. It did not help. Let us change our conclusion radically: The fifth trumpet of Revelation 9 represents the rise and recognition of AIDS in the twentieth century.

How did this help the seven churches of Asia to know this? Why would Christ prepare them for this? How does this little fact help us beyond the text of Revelation 9?

How was the lesson expanded, enlightened and benefited? It is not. The lesson simply is not helped.

The only thing that could come out of this is that the one speculating is seen as insightful, scholarly and impressive to admirers and possibly expand their fan base and book sales.

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